Curse

makosi · Jun 02, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

My necro will be virtually unaffected by this update. It was intended to balance, and balance it definitely will. Like monks, mesmers, eles and rangers, you need to manage your energy by yourself and there will always be ways of doing so. The spirits were giving away energy like there was no tomorrow which does create an imbalance if you choose not to create a predominantly necro team in HA. I bet that there will still be blood spikes in HA and they will still work because its an easy thing to get around. You can sacrifice a necro for another Rt or something along those lines.

Quote:

How about less complaining and trying some different skills and tactics?

IWAY has stuck like gum on your shoe that won't budge so I'm guessing b-spike won't either. Once people get in to their comfort zones, they can't seem to shift.

yuna of spira · Jun 02, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

What I originally meant with this thread was GvG. I've run blood spike once or twice and that was several months ago. In no way am I and many others in this game complaining of some sort of comfort zone that I have become accustomed to. This is about Necros never getting their due as a primary class, and now that they create a class that adds value to necros enough to make them just as valuable as an ele or monk or warrior primary, ANET decides to nerf them within a small time frame for GvGs. So where do necro primaries go from here? Some of you may be right, maybe in a GvG the spirits will still be enough at half energy gained (btw i saw 7 sr gives you +3 off spirits, not 4) to effectively make soul reaping worth taking into a GvG. I guess I'll just have to see. I just feel they moved on this one way too fast and didnt give people a chance to adjust.

makosi · Jun 02, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

And how long has b-spike been winning halls? Its a matter of months now which is a long enough time to adjust. I watch GvGs now and then and I barely see any necros dependent on spirit spammers. In fact the only one i've seen was the iB vs EW final which it was mutually agreed that it was 'gimmicky'.

If it weren't for exhaustion, I'd nuke with N/E any day because the influx of energy is much more sustainable with SR than with Energy Storage. Ever played monk and wish that you had Soul Reaping?

TheMosesPHD · Jun 02, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuna of spira

What I originally meant with this thread was GvG. I've run blood spike once or twice and that was several months ago. In no way am I and many others in this game complaining of some sort of comfort zone that I have become accustomed to. This is about Necros never getting their due as a primary class, and now that they create a class that adds value to necros enough to make them just as valuable as an ele or monk or warrior primary, ANET decides to nerf them within a small time frame for GvGs. So where do necro primaries go from here? Some of you may be right, maybe in a GvG the spirits will still be enough at half energy gained (btw i saw 7 sr gives you +3 off spirits, not 4) to effectively make soul reaping worth taking into a GvG. I guess I'll just have to see. I just feel they moved on this one way too fast and didnt give people a chance to adjust.

Bleh. You're quite right. Necro primaries are a dying creed.

Retribution X · Jun 02, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I think necros OWN with the current nerfs/buffs.

Most people I fight think Life Transfer is overpowered...

CyberNigma · Jun 02, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

The title should've clarified that it was intended for PvP. I was thinking something had happened across the board or in PvE. I don't care much about PvP right now (haven't PvP'ed in a bit as I'm playing Factions), but will when I get back to it. In PvE the necromancer is still by far one of the most powerful classes in the game. Spiteful Spirit, Spinal Shivers, and Minion Master necros are still in great demand and can make a big difference in a team. I still believe that Spinal Shivers should be on a mesmer and not a necro, but I doubt that will change.

Jetdoc · Jun 02, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Yes, necro primaries got hit hard in PvP because of the nerf to spirit spamming soul reaping energy, but in the end I would rather have a Primary Necro with 18 Blood running that spike than a FC Me/N with only 14 Blood.

That damage difference (which in a normal six spell blood chain is almost 60 damage) is HUGE, and is not compensated by the faster cast time.

The Soul Reaping bonus was there just to keep the spike going endlessly. Now blood spikers are going to have to balance cast time/interruptability with pure damage output to determine whether to go with Necro or Mesmer primary.

Viruzzz · Jun 02, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

you tell me how to raise curses, death magic and bloodmagic beyond 12 on a secondary necro and i will stop playing. until then. no

Angel Develin · Jun 02, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

<----still loves Necro's

Mr_eX · Jun 02, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

I'm tired of hearing people complain about how [insert attribute here] and [insert primary class here] are useless now that they've been nerfed.

Guild Wars is extremely well-balanced. Nothing is "useless" per se--there are enough skills that there's some viable use for most skills and most primary/secondary classes. Skill balances are meant to get rid of "the uberbuild" which is simply more powerful than everything else and put all builds on a level playing field. Keep playing and trying new combinations of classes and skills, practice with them, and then you'll have a true tactical advantage over your opponents.

On the other hand, if you think that necro primary is pointless, or that energy storage sucks, and that skill/attribute-balancing ruins the game, then you're playing the wrong game. Go play WoW and have as many all-powerful level 60 characters as you want.

crimsonfilms · Jun 02, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Necros dying in GvG?

WTF? I assume you use your necro to spike huh?

So many guild in the top 30 rotate necro in their build. DTWO, KGYU, EvIL, etc.

Stop using PvE and HA mentality. There are uses for necros other than Blood Spike and MM.
Arguably the best warrior hate along with Ele water, degen builds, battery, heal party spammer, taint, etc.

Youa re not playing necros to its full potential. And anyway - didnt like 3 guilds used Blood Spike *without* spirit spamming 2 seasons ago and finished in the top 50?

I think this is the case 'My build got nerfed so the profession got nerfed' PoV.

Siddious · Jun 02, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

This post is pointless. What difference does half the energy make anyway.
You should be thankful, at least they didn't make it so that you get 0 energy from spirits. Just stop complaining >_<

Divinus Stella · Jun 02, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Well, it would be better if they removed the soul reaping from spirits, blood spike is becoming like iway, only iway is entertaining to face, blood spike is like watching paint dry.

CyberNigma · Jun 02, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

you tell me how to raise curses, death magic and bloodmagic beyond 12 on a secondary necro and i will stop playing. until then. no

Blood and Curses
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Awaken_the_Blood

Death
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Bortak's_Bone_Cesta

Not at the same time, though. I don't think anyone above was saying at the same time and it seemed like you were implying secondary necros couldn't get their stats above 12 due to a lack of runes, but nonetheless as you worded it (and instead of or) I won't be asking what you'll do with your account..

There's also the Grenth shrines in Cantha to help boost necro stats.

Sakashi · Jun 02, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

You call changing soul reaping to gain half energy from spirits a nerf? The energy management from that was so unbalancing i would call this a FIX. I actually thought soul reaping was going to be completely removed from spirits. So think yourselves lucky necro, Anet has been kind.

Ole Man Bourbon · Jun 02, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I don't understand why people think Necros suck. The only class that sucks is Ele. I thought everyone knew that.

Ensign · Jun 02, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuna of spira

This is about Necros never getting their due as a primary class

Various types of blood and curses guys have popped up in a variety of support roles in GvG. You have the order guy powering ranger spikes, the death guy supporting thumper way, the various flavors of hex spammer. The profession does not have a generic template that ends up as a cornerstone of many builds (as warriors and monks are), instead it's a deep profession that provides what it needed to a wide spectrum of different builds. The slight of necros in GvG is wholly imagined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuna of spira

and now that they create a class that adds value to necros enough to make them just as valuable as an ele or monk or warrior primary

Does not follow. How does their (ridiculously overpowered) presence in a single, polarized build make them just as valuable as monks or warriors? It's not like ritualists + soul reaping was putting necromancers in every build - it was spawning a few flavors of a single, degenerate archtype. Either you were playing that particular archtype, or this change to soul reaping really isn't going to affect you all that much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuna of spira

I just feel they moved on this one way too fast and didnt give people a chance to adjust.

This response is starting to sound like a broken record. What you would suggest, letting people FoC non-FoC teams on Imperial Isle for another month and a half to gather data and conclude that it is, indeed, ridiculous? Don't delude yourself into thinking this was about necromancers in general. This is about 20 pip necro-monks on a map you couldn't even pretend to split on. If you need someone to explain to you why that is ridiculous you shouldn't be trying to participate in balance conversations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

I don't understand why people think Necros suck. The only class that sucks is Ele. I thought everyone knew that.

I would guess because there isn't a generally accepted necromancer template for so-called 'balanced' builds. There are a variety of warriors with similar templates and different weapons, surge/shatter domination mesmers, healers and booprots, air/water runners, cripshot dueling templates. You never drop a standardized necromancer into a build like that, which makes him look like a bastard child to some people, I'd think. At the same time, whenever a build does call for a specialized character to fill a niche, that guy is very often a necromancer.

Peace,
-CxE

GloryFox · Jun 02, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Ole Man Bourbon I don't understand why people think Necros suck. The only class that sucks is Ele. I thought everyone knew that.

LOL your right Old Man..
I actually deleted my 1 year old Ele because I was hoping factions would grant them the skill to truly diversify. Nope it did not work out so I replaced him with an Assassin.

Also how many times do you see. Earth Warder LFG, Ice Slowdown Ele LFG, or Air Hammer Ele LFG? Nope... never see em... Instead I see Fire Nuker LFG, GLF Fire Nuker, GLF Fire Echo Ele, ect.

Necros are far from nerfed, I can always count on a necro being needed anywhere I go. Also their builds allow lots of diversity to fulfill almost any role. IMO they are the most under nerfed class in the game with the exception of the Ranger. SS is still overpowered IMO as well and should be a Mesmer Elite (Domination or Illusion).

CyberNigma · Jun 02, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

LOL your right Old Man..
I actually deleted my 1 year old Ele because I was hoping factions would grant them the skill to truly diversify. Nope it did not work out so I replaced him with an Assassin.

Also how many times do you see. Earth Warder LFG, Ice Slowdown Ele LFG, or Air Hammer Ele LFG? Nope... never see em... Instead I see Fire Nuker LFG, GLF Fire Nuker, GLF Fire Echo Ele, ect.

Necros are far from nerfed, I can always count on a necro being needed anywhere I go. Also their builds allow lots of diversity to fulfill almost any role. IMO they are the most under nerfed class in the game with the exception of the Ranger. SS is still overpowered IMO as well and should be a Mesmer Elite (Domination or Illusion).

Yeah, I agree on your opinion of the necro. Spiteful Spirit is a more powerful version of Empathy/Backfire and Spinal Shivers would be the ultimate Mesmer (interrupter) interrupt.

bushe · Jun 02, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I really thought they were going to take spirit energy out of soul reaping all together. Necros still serve their purpose in the pvp game: great support characters individually who can build a decent spike team with a group of necros. Necro spike isn't supposed to be the IT build it is supposed to be a viable build, like ranger spike, thumpers, and fc air spike. Anet does a good job of watching the championships and tuning the skills without totally crushing them, last time it was gale, crip shot and energy surge this time the overpowered builds were spirit spam necro spike and assassin cross map ganking